Heavy weather sailing

[Normanby]

Hello,
As a newbie to Investigator sailing, i'd be very interested in other owners' heavy weather techniques.
Every type of boat has its own idiosyncracies, so i'm wondering about the reefing sequence on an Investigator. I'd have thought it would be, as the wind pipes up:
Start to roll up the main first (how is this best done, by the way?),
if it gets worse, take in the jib, leaving a little of the main up. And if it gets worse still, drop everything and hang on to something!
And, does anyone have the kind of roller furling on the jib that can be sailed partially furled? I had a "Reefurl" system on my last boat. It was somewhat 'agricultural' but sturdy as hell, and could be furled and unfurled full of wind no problems. The flimsy little drum on Pip looks like it won't be much help if i have to take the jib down in a blow.
All thoughts that can help me not be a nervuos nelly during my first few sails aboard Pip, are greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Matt

[Yara50]

Matt
Be assured, you have bought a boat which will look after you. (see the review I posted yesterday.)

My technique, which is a very conservative one, is carry full main and standard jib up to say 15 knots. Above that start by changing down to the storm jib, and at say, 20 knots, reef the main.

You can change the angle of the centre board to keep the boat balanced under most combinations.

Some other basic points:
IMHO the normal furlers are a danger. They look neat, but they are not reefers, and the sail can blow out and shake and cause all sorts of hassles. It is also difficult to change sails under way. I use a jib downhaul instead. Will post more info on this later.

Reefing- similarly the roller reefing is not perfect- most people go for slab reefing. I will be naughty and waste more of my working time and quickly post the info in the technical section.

[peter yates]

G'day Matt,
Ian obviously knows his stuff and he is dead right about the boat looking after you, but I have a slightly different technique as the wind rises.

Basically, starting with a full main and working jib, I think about one reef at about 15 knots and a second at 20 knots before reducing the jib. I have found the boat surprisingly well balanced with jib only.

Agree about the furler being a bit of a danger in terms of possibly letting go and releasing the sail although I have had no trouble as yet with that.

I did have a heavier duty foil type furler, permanently on the forestay on my previous Investigator and it was great, but basically no good for trailing.

Peter

[Yara50]

Peter's technique is also good. It is certainly the way you have to go if you don't have, or cannot change, to the storm jib. The beauty of the long keel of the Investigator 563 is that it is very forgiving of sail balance, however, with a relatively larger main area, it is easier to balance perfectly by pulling back on the centreboard.

If the truth be told, if I have wimpy passengers, once the wind gets up, I switch to storm jib and the deep reef in the main, and sit back and relax.

[Ozzie]

IMHO the normal furlers are a danger. They look neat, but they are not reefers, and the sail can blow out and shake and cause all sorts of hassles. It is also difficult to change sails under way. I use a jib downhaul instead. Will post more info on this later.

Matt I agree with Ian I dont think furler on the Investigator is much chop as a heavy weather furler, If caught in a blow I always wrap a few turns of the jib sheets around the furled sail and even a sail tie up as high as I can reach, also when overnighting with jib in place.

But don't chuck the furler altogether. On calm days when you are doing a lot of anchoring ,fishing or recreating they are a blessing, neat and keep the deck clear especially if you nose in and board the boat that way as I do. Also as I read in a sailing book the furler can be reefed in light air as a speed control. I used to practice sailing onto my mooring in light wind when I first got the boat in case the "ancient mariner" let me down. It works great for this under partial reefing and as its only in light air.

On crook looking days I normally sail on the No 2 from scratch with full main. After 1 reef I pull the jib in and if it looks like a second reef is needed I generally pull in the washing and fire up the AM and the kettle, but in Lake Mac you are usually never far from shelter.

I have used the roller boom a bit for reefing and sail shape is a bit Homer Simpson, but I was defeated by the locking mechanism on my boat which is not positive. This year I am going to repair it and try again. Boom furling should work. I have researched it a bit and...

1. Kev Shepard had it as standard on 563's and given the rest of the boat is so well thought out he must have had faith in it.

2. I have an old book by Jeff Toghill who is a well respected sailing author and he endorses it.

3. It was apparently used by North American fishing boats all the time who were sailing in bad weather and for a living. The article I read about this said most people don't use it because they never master doing it correctly.

...so this year... I'll try again. I like the idea if infinite reefing on the main and I would probably stay out longer if I mastered it

As others have said the 563 is a stable and forgiving boat so its more about finding where the skipper feels comfortable.

Cheers

[Yara50]

Roller reefing was the fashion in the 70s. My Bluebird 22 had it, but the problem I found was "droop"- as you roll the sail on the luff becomes tighter than the leech, and the end of the boom droops. It is possible to overcome this by stuffing something like a sail bag in the sail as you roll it up. The other problem is you lose your boom vang unless you have a roller assembly, and even then, this is difficult to locate. When the wind is up and you are sailing with reduced sail area, you want efficiency, and the slab reef is more efficient.

The Investigator 563 standard hardware has a pull out arrangement and a square peg to lock the turning of the boom. On many, the spring has lost it's push, and the square end of the pin no longer locks. You could drill out the rivets, and remove the gooseneck fitting, then fix the spring, but why bother, when the end result is not wonderful.

Also, it is possible to jiffy reef without getting on the foredeck, and in the conditions that you want to reef, this is a big advantage.

[Ozzie]

The 'droop" can be easily solved by gluing some concreter's expansion foam to the sides of the rear of the boom, this allows the sail to bulk up at the rear when you roll it. I tried adding this loose and it works.

Jeff Toghill "Sailing for Beginners'

"The old method of reefing with reefing points is so outdated and involved and leaves the sail in such an unusable bundle it is not worth mentioning here. If roller reefing is not provided it is better to reduce sail by dropping one or other of the sails ....."..... with roller reefing, the sail can be quickly and effectively reduced to any required stage.

Another reefing technique is slab reefing the jib which was once wide spread. All I am saying is dont write these things off because they are not the flavour of the month any more, they were around a long time before foil jib furlers and in mast furling. I will persevere let you know how I go

Cheers

[Ozzie]

Matt

If you look at this thread on TSP from today you get a fairly good cross section of opinions including a similar chichen***t one to mine

http://trailersailerplace.com.au/forum/ ... php?t=4203

Particularly see the one by 'mywinsome' that says

Can't see the point in bashing thru the waves in 25 knots or more. You are getting into the space where gear breaks at the most inconvenient time.


Cheers

[Yara50]

Jeff Toghill- "Trailer Yachts" 1985:
"Roller reefing is popular with a number of of trailer yacht manufacturers, although it does tend to leave the reefed mainsail in a somewhat baggy condition. Jiffy reefing is by far the most popular... Apart from the speed of operation (it) leaves the mainsail in good shape and is thus very popular with racing crews"

[Ozzie]

He certainly likes to have a foot in both camps, that Mr Toghill