2 Shrouds (Side stays) or 1

[cruiserpete]

Hi all,

I decided to put the mast up today whilst the boat is parked in our drieway to 'see' how things work and to hoist some sails to see how they everything goes together. Other than a few sticky moments all went well. I had a halyard on the wrong side of a stay but a LONG stick soon got it sorted and as mentioned below raised the mast and connected the shrouds after raising?.

I've noticed some 563's have 1 shroud and some 2 is there any reason for this. My lower shrouds under the spreader have a turn-buckle for tightening however the upper shrouds have NO adjustment other than the holes in the chainplate.

Opps.... I've just reread the online writeup (PDF ) and realised that I raised the mast and connected both shrouds AFTER raising the mast. I think I should have connected the shrouds first and then raised the mast. The UPPER shrouds have quite a lot of slack, would I be correct in thinking that connecting the upper shrouds to the chainplate (poss 1 hole down from the current setting) would sufficiently tighten the shrouds??

The shrouds in question. The Port turnbuckle looks dodgy so I'll replace it when the mast is lowered. You will; also notice in the picture the missing toerail however, I'm working through options because there is next to no toerail availability in Tas and I'll never get the meterage required sent from mainland Aust to Tas for a reasonable freight cost.


The standing rigging can just be made out in this photo. Upper shroud directly to chainplate, lower shroud (just under spreader) to chainplate via turnbuckle at chainplate and diamond spreader. The backstay has a lightening arrester along it (it's ceramic and the backstay from mast stops at the arrester and a new backstay starts at the arrester and continues to the boat neither backstay cables touch at the arrester) so I think it's more a lightening 'stopper/arrester' than actual backstay plus the backstay simply ties off to a single block with NO adjustment. I imagine the backstay could have a small block & tackle added to it but I'm unsure on how much tension the lightening arrester could take before breaking so I'll just leave it as it is.




Cheers, Pete

[Steve]

Hi Pete,
My 563 has 2 side shrouds but no diamond stay.
Looking at your photo it is hard to tell if your cap shrouds are passing through the outer guides in the spreader on the mast, it may be the perspective of the photo , are they passing through the spreader ??
Steve

[cruiserpete]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. The spreaders are totally independent of the shrouds thus, none of the shrouds pass through the spreaders. The spreader cable starts up the mast runs through the spreader and connect back at the mast about 50cm above where the boom connects. The upper shroud is direct from the mast to the chainplate and the lower spreader is direct from the mast to the chainplate but with a turnbuckle for adjustments.

Drawing of rigging (not to scale)

Cheers, Pete

[Steve]

That's interesting Pete,
If the forestay goes to the cap you must have a masthead rig, I have a fractional rig, the forestay doesn't go to the mast cap and the cap shrouds pass through the spreaders which are swept back. My backstay is tensioned though a block but is only there to bend the mast, not to hold the mast up. With the mast head rig the backstay adjustment will tension the forestay unlike the fractional rig. Whilst I find your set up interesting, I'm sure some of the other vet 563 skippers may be able to clarify. I'm interested that my 563 doesn't have a diamond stay and am wondering if the diamond stay is peculiar to mast head rigs.
And on another note I was horrified at the amount of slack and wobble in the spreaders on my 563's mast, so I machined some sleeves for them to stiffen them up and added a couple more rivets. The spreaders I have are nothing more than deck lifeline stanchions and only had the one small screw in them allowing them to wonder around.
Steve

[Yara50]

The standard Investigator 563 mast has the diamond stays and one shroud each side and the forestay connected to hounds about 7/8ths up the mast, so is a "fractional" rig.

The mast section is not tapered, and so it is debatable whether the diamond stays are necessary. They do not support the mast, they strengthen it. If you look at our posts on offshore mods you will see that for a bit of extra security some people like to add a lower shroud. Looks like this is what you have.
.
Stay adjusters work fine, we have them on Yara.

Stay adjusters on single shrouds

IMG_0024_2.jpg (35.04 KiB) Viewed 5618 times

Normally we leave the shrouds attached for trailering. You do need the backstay- it is one way of tensioning the forestay. Also the shrouds are not very far aft, so the mast needs the extra support.

Adjust the shrouds after you have looked at the cabin top stiffening.

You may be able to get some wood profile toe-rail at a reasonable price in Tassie. Does not matter if it is not a match with the other side, unless you are a purist

[Yara50]

Backstay insulator- Is it insulated at the top as well as lower down? Wondering if it was maybe set up as a radio antenna.

[cruiserpete]

[quote="Yara50"If you look at our posts on offshore mods you will see that for a bit of extra security some people like to add a lower shroud. Looks like this is what you have.

Normally we leave the shrouds attached for trailering. You do need the backstay- it is one way of tensioning the forestay. Also the shrouds are not very far aft, so the mast needs the extra support.

Adjust the shrouds after you have looked at the cabin top stiffening. [/quote]

Thanks, I'll look up 'off shore' that's about the only search phrase I did not use..... typical lol.

Backstay insulator- Is it insulated at the top as well as lower down? Wondering if it was maybe set up as a radio antenna.

Thanks, yes, there is also an insulator at the top of the back stay. From me readings, I563's don't use/need a back-stay so it looks to be either an antenna or insulator. Given, that the extra shrouds/side stays point to off shore modifications? it may be more antenna although, I'll need to find where it terminates because it connects to the transom by a short piece of rope?

I'll do more investigating

[cruiserpete]

"If you look at our posts on offshore mods you will see that for a bit of extra security some people like to add a lower shroud. Looks like this is what you have.

Normally we leave the shrouds attached for trailering. You do need the backstay- it is one way of tensioning the forestay. Also the shrouds are not very far aft, so the mast needs the extra support.

Adjust the shrouds after you have looked at the cabin top stiffening.

Thanks, I'll look up 'off shore' that's about the only search phrase I did not use..... typical lol.

Backstay insulator- Is it insulated at the top as well as lower down? Wondering if it was maybe set up as a radio antenna.

Thanks, yes, there is also an insulator at the top of the back stay. The backstay may be an antenna, I'll do more investigating.

[Yara50]

Pete, most Investigator 563's do have a backstay. Maybe you are thinking of the Careel 18. The backstay is a big advantage as it allows the shrouds to be almost in line with the mast. Without the backstay, the shroud chainplates need to be mounted further aft, and that limits the amount of angle the boom can be let out in a run. (I also have worries of being dismasted in a gybe if you have no backstay and the boom hits a shroud in a mad gybe.)

The backstay allows you to adjust the forestay tension without overloading the shrouds, another big advantage.

If you don't have a marine radio,(and for the backstay antenna to be any good, it has to be matched to the transmitter frequency), it may be better to fit a new backstay.

[Yara50]

Have posted some pics in our gallery section showing one (rare) Investigator 563 without backstay, and also the rather better method of rigging the furling jib, compared to the Careel design.