Alternative Rudder Ideas

[Peter T]

Hi all, with all this freezing weather, I have not been able to do too much to the boat towards its restoration so I have been turning my thoughts to other things, one of which is what would be the best type of rudder to use. I have a perfectly good original. I also have the drawings from the forum around the tilt up rudder. Also on a couple of boats, I have seen a couple of versions of dagger board styles. All of them in my mind have pro's and con's. You don't want a dagger to be too heavy or too light. I reckon there could be problems raising, lowering and holding a fold up in place etc.
With a lot of things that require a lot of thought, I often get ideas as I sleep.
One such idea I have had is,
" how would a folding rudder go ? "( fold up sideways)
I really like the idea of the shape of the bottom of the original with its " wing" style shape at the very bottom, but that creates difficulty if it is to be a dagger style.
The other consideration is the surface area. It needs to be very close to the same surface area in the water to the original so as not to upset the balance of the boat.
How would it be if the rudder was able to be hinged, say at a point close to the bottom of the transom.
Because of the outboard being mounted on the port side of the transom, I would think it could be swung up towards the starboard side. It would be easy to hold it up into its folded position, but I am looking for ideas to latch it into its "down" position where the mechanism would not create too much drag in the water and be easy to access from within the cockpit. I think that if this could be achieved, then it would be great for launching, trailering as well as for sailing. Just throwing ideas around.
Any ideas from any members most welcome.

PLEASE.

Thanks in advance

[Ozzie]

Neat idea Peter. First thing that came to mind was two stainless rods going down through the centreline of the rudder section , both attached to a cap piece. Think of a big two toothed comb. Fold rudder down, slide “comb” down into two holes in the bottom section . This of course would require a solid bit of kit for the rudder.

A large timber fold up rudder come with Spritzig II but although useful when beach landing it’s heavy as the Rock of Gibraltar and I think it puts too much weight in the back of the boat. I think fold up rudders are great, no matter how they fold, but need to be light or at least not much heavier than the original.

30C79DEF-7D36-41D3-9D12-23DBE89B5168.jpeg (24.67 KiB) Viewed 1367 times

[Ozzie]

I wonder could you put the pintles on a pivoting( at the top) plate and move that to the starboard side from say 6 o’clock position to 3 o’clock position. You could put a stop/lock bracket on the port side of it’s locked position and a locking pin worked from above. Even moving it to 4 o’clock position would probably give you clearance above the keel for beaching.

Emrys will probably be along soon and will have a shed full of motorbike parts he could repurpose for ideas.

[Peter T]

Thanks Ozzie, the photo of the folding timber one is interesting. It could probably be made using a hard foam core and glassed over with timber reinforcing where it would be needed, like at the pivot point.This would make it strong and a lot lighter. I agree with you that the one in the photo would be too heavy. Your second idea re pivoting the pintles, I can't see that working as the boarding ladder would be in the way if I correctly understand what you are saying I would think.
I like the idea of the stainless rods. Could be done using a combo of timber and hard foam core to give strength where it's needed as well as weight reduction. This also gave me the idea of a couple of tangs pointing down from the top section, one towards the transom and one towards the back of the rudder. There would be slots in the bottom section for the tangs to fit into and a single stainless rod may be able to be inserted from the back of the rudder passing through the tangs holding it together with a stainless plat toggle in the end of the rod that would lock the rod into place. Then to remove the rod, align the toggle and pull rod out. This would depend on being able to reach it from within the cockpit. If it worked, there would be no obstructions to water flow over the rudder in any way. Will have to get in the boat tomorrow and see it it would be able to be reached. Only problem to then overcome would be to not be able to drop the rod and loose it on these bed, perhaps a light lanyard? Then it would need some cord or system to physically fold the bottom section of the rudder up sideways.. makes the old grey matter boil mate. Ha ha but that's the whole idea of asking for ideas..
Thanks again. Will be interesting to see what other ideas come forward.

Just had another thought. There might be an already existing stainless spring loaded latch type marine fitting that has a pull ring that folds flat to lock the bottom section to the top. Two of these could do the job if they exist. Will have to check out the chandlers or the boat bits books

[Ozzie]

Yes it would not work if you have a boarding ladder Peter, but maybe if you pivoted the bracket in the centre you could get most of it it out of the water, certainly good enough for coming into shoals under motor. Will your boarding ladder foul your pivoting from the waterline in your original idea ?

By those latches you mean something like these from WW.

I have one of these on my front hatch. They have an open ring to make them lockable but you could also put a split pin through the ring as a secondary safety measure if locking the rudder down. Two would be plenty. Even if the whole mechanism were just under the waterline, I doubt at 6knots the drag would be significant enough to worry about. You might start a trend here mate.

[Peter T]

Hi Ozzie, yes I do have the boarding ladder but all that would be necessary would be to turn the rudder a bit so that it missed when folding it. I did think of those type catches, but there would be a hell of a load on them. Not sure if they would be strong enough. However, it would be possible to use long thin bolts to mount them through the thickness of the rudder.
When turning the rudder, the whole weight of the boat would be pressing on the bottom of the rudder trying to fold it up on turning to port and the catches would be on the starboard side of the rudder. The action would be trying to pull the catches apart or rip the screws holding them out I would think. Still worth thinking about. Would love to hear any other ideas from others to see what comes forward. Have had the suggestion that I should not worry about it, get on with the things that are keeping the boat out of the water and worry about the rudder after that. I am still interested in any ideas that come forward though. I love working out solutions to things, even if I end up not doing them. I find it fascinating