Caution Jib Hank

[Ozzie]

I have thought about winches Geoff but I like the simplicity of the basic investigator. Even the 2 to 1 blocks are an extra to break I suppose ,or lose if your a goose like me I was even put off by a keeler mate from the idea of rope jammers as he pointed out that they are slower to release in an emergency than the grooved blocks currently fitted to the boat, just jerk the rope and its free.

If I ever invest in a larger Genoa and go for low mounted tracks I may look at winches. When I took the family around Australia in our old kombi ( circe 1990s) I figured any bush mechanic could repair it and I was right. Simplicity is hard to break and when it does its easy to fix.( and generally cheaper to replace)

[no way]

I use 6mm spectra halyards thru jambers to winches on the cabin top There's a motza of load on them. A couple of weeks ago I managed to destroy the main halyard winch. Was sailing on the wind (lightish breeze)and felt that the main could have used a little more tension, dropped the handle in, released a bit of sheet load and as soon as I put load on the handle the top of the winch disintegrated and the bits went over the side. New winch $99 and fitted the next week. Cant fathom the comment about the "grooved blocks" (called clam cleats) at all because as soon as any load goes on to them the rope moves down into the cleat in the direction of the load. To "unjamb" the rope you must put atleast the same load on the tail of the line to pull it forward and up to release. Jambers you only need to knock the lever forward and the rope runs. Any catching of the freed halyard can occur in any cleating system bar a cam cleat - but then its easy to inadvertantly uncleat from that type as well.

[Ozzie]

ICant fathom the comment about the "grooved blocks" (called clam cleats) at all because as soon as any load goes on to them the rope moves down into the cleat in the direction of the load. To "unjamb" the rope you must put atleast the same load on the tail of the line to pull it forward and up to release. Jambers you only need to knock the lever forward and the rope runs. Any catching of the freed halyard can occur in any cleating system bar a cam cleat - but then its easy to inadvertantly uncleat from that type as well.

I may not have explained it well. I don't have cam cleats, I know what they are No Way. I only have one cam cleat, on the main sheet block. My jib sheets are cleated in fully grooved V blocks also I guess called V cleats. (top left of pic)

But mine unlike most Ive seen are not closed over at the entry point but "grooved" so you can almost always just pull the sheet out up and of the "groove", even under load ... quick for tacking or emergency. (which is how I release them when changing sides). My mate has been sailing keelers for nearly 50 years so I think he regards the investigator as just a big dinghy , which in many respects I suppose it is and advises jammers are not really needed.

[Steve]

That is a clam cleat Ozzie. I use them on my jib sheets too but mine stand up on the combing next to my sheet winches

[Ozzie]

Sorry, I was getting 'cam' and 'clam' confused. I had not heard the expression 'clam' cleat ever before. Mine must be very worn because I don't have to pull back on the sheet to release them , I just pull them sideways out of the slot.

I thought these were v cleats.

http://www.ronstan.com/marine/range.asp?RnID=065

I figured mine were some old obsolete fitting that came with the boat 35 years ago
and probably were the original open groove style and the newer closed v style we're to make use of a stop knot . There ya go . Gotta remember I'm an old power boatie . Spritzig II is the only yacht I've owned. Although I see ronstan do still market an fully open groove.

So does anyone use jammers on their 563 and where?

Also it appears I'm in the minority here with no winches

And another question now I'm up on the terminology, why would you use a v cleat or clam cleat as a choice and in what situation ? Would I be better to replace the open clams with closed v's for jib sheets?

[Steve]

Ozzie,
I have 3 lever type jammers and a rope clutch on the coachhouse for the halyards. I find the jammers a bit of a pain when you go forward and need to pull up some slack in a halyard, they always seem to do what they are designed to do and jam the rope. The rope clutch on the other hand works great. I have 2 halyard winches and rarely use them. I use the jib halyard on a winch for puting slack in the forestay so I can attach and unattach it and sometimes crank a bit of pressure on the halyards in strong wind but allot of the times out sailing I wouldn't of used them.
My Jib sheet winches always get used, Its good to be able to put a couple of turns around them and sit on the windward side holding the sheet during a tack. Once all has settled down I jam the tails off in a clam cleat.
I like the idea of clam cleats as you can grab a spot in a length of rope without having to pull rope through them. I have some cam cleats on another boat that are used on the jib sheets, I don't use them any more because they seem to be damaging the rope in frequent used spots, in that case I just tie the tail off the winch onto a horn cleat.
I like the open style clam cleats for jib sheets simply because you don't have to pull rope through them.