Fun With Furlers

[Ozzie]

Anyone reading my posts knows Im a big fan... erhm ...user of the standard Ronstan P76 furler on the 563. I still am, but adding a coda from Sundays experience. We went down to Wangi for a nice lunch and shark watch (...new growth industry on LM) We waited for the breeze to pick up and then had a nice fast run down to Rathmines and then headed home. By this time the breeze had picked right up and we were fair hoofing along at about 5.5knots on the GPS. We should probably have switched down to the no2 jib but we were having too much fun. As we approached the mooring area I attempted to furl the no1 and due to the force on the sail it wrapped VERY tightly around the forestay. I literally ran out of windings.

With about a third of the sail still out and thrashing about I sheeted on again and turned the boat into the wind ... still too much force on the washing and ran out of windings again. By this time I was past past p***ing about and just clamped the port jib sheet , dropped the main, engaged the Detriot spinnaker and motored to the mooring . Interesting side issue when we got there the reefed ?? genoa was providing too much side force to safely negotiate my tight mooring space. So into the wind in some open water, anchor and put the kettle on till things quietened down about 15minutes later.

Normally I can furl the Genoa/ No1 with no trouble even under wind at any point of sail but this time it was just a little too much.

Interested in any other furler users experiences. Should I have maybe, turned downwind and blanketed the jib with the main like a spinnaker ?

As I say I normally would have changed down earlier but, was too close to the mooring to bother. I think in future I will use standard rigging with a down haul when the wind is this lively. Furler is great for lazy days gunkholing around the lake though. I also may see if I can add a few more windings of VB chord on the furler to see how that goes.

I have another post on sheeting the jib but my wife is expecting her evening meal and its my turn so back later this evening.

Edit http://www.investigator563.com/forum/vi ... lit=furler

This old post by Gunter is interesting. He slides a 30 mm PVC pipe over his forestay above the furler to bulk up the furl and create a pseudo reefer....and he was sailing Great Sandy Straight Now that's worth a go. Anybody else tried this?

[Dr. Peter]

WRT to Pip the forestay is incorporated into the furling jib so I don't have the separate forestay problem. At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious to some but being mindful that some forum members are relative novices I would say the following:
1. You need enough capacity on your furler to fully wind up the headsail (I have written about my code zero elsewhere).

2. Ensure there is a bit of tension be it by hand or by shock cord on the furling line as the headsail is set. This ensures the line is properly wrapped around the spool.

3. Before departure (at the dock or on the trailer or mooring) check the unfurling and furling of the jib. Make sure the back stay is firm before sailing off.

Furling jibs get loose when packed away between trips, and the looser they are, the less furling line they wind up on the spool when they are set, and consequently there are less turns available in the spool to fully furl the sail.

The pre-departure test will show if the headsail will furl all the way. If it does not furl up fully then disconnect the jib sheets and wrap the foot of the sail around the rest until it is fully furled.

4. Make sure your jib sheets have enough slack in them to allow the furler to work properly.

5. Make sure the jib halyard is tight as a loose luff never rolls up properly in my experience.

6. Furling is high winds is a particular issue because the headsail furls up super tight and this means that some of it is left loose and flogging.

A. I suppose an off-water fix would be to install an extra capacity furler.
B. Going forward on the water [after heaving to]:
a. you could wind the furler by hand and then tying it off (hard work on my dainty wrists),
b. you could use the spinnaker halyard to wrap the headsail (not tidy but effective),
c. you could wrestle with the whole flogging mess by hand (not recommended but common).
C. It is is the over-furled sail created by the strong wing that is the problem - turning head to wind is usually best as the force imoves between either side of the sail.

[Ozzie]

Ok , just come back from a slightly windier sail, once again over to Rathmines and lunch at Styles Point, I can see why the TSP crowd like it so much as a launch area. On the return trip we had the No.2 jib up and no problem with the furler, or at least it worked . Needed a bit of beef the get it in as the wind was stronger than the previous trip and it was a tight furl again. I have bought some 20mm PVC from bunnys and am going to emulate Gunter's idea next time I go out . Slightly smaller than his 30mm but was cheap as chips and worth a trial. Will report my findings

Meant to add, I always test furl after rigging and my jib comes off the rig and is rolled away, DP I gather your furled sail comes down as a unit all furled up?

[Dr. Peter]

Ozzie,
Yes the top of my headsail is attached to the mast just before raising. The wire in the luff does double duty as the forestay. It is a furling headsail not a reefing headsail so it is either wound all the way up or unwound all the way.

I don't understand the Gunter's modification and I would like to because being able to reef my headsail could be handy.

For my boat I am thinking I would fit the wire luff inside the PVC pipe via the slot. Furl the sail say to half size and tie off the pipe so that it can't unroll on its own and is not relying on the bit of 2mm furling line.

Am I on the right track and how long should the pipe be?

[Ozzie]

I understand now Peter, I have exactly the same system , it's just that I remove the jib before taking down the mast , but I see how you could do it while still furled , fair enough. My additional forestay is only for safety reasons in case any of the many links in the furling forestay fail when sailing or on the mooring.

I have been giving a lot of thought to Gunter's idea. My thinking is if you cut a nice tight slot in your PVC pipe that would pinch in BEHIND the sail hanks so it would be resting internally with one side on the wire forestay and the slotted side snug behind the plastic hank you would effectively be creating a rigid foil like a real furler. To do this you would need to slide it up the hanked on jib easing it over each hank as you went. In my case as in moored I'd probably bend the pipe on to save undoing the forestay. I don't think the max length of pipe goes all the full length of the luff so I've also bought an extra 1 m length which I will trim to the exact size when I try it.

I plan to join these by an internal smaller section PVC glued to the extension piece with a nut epoxied inside to take two short stainless bolts.  It will fit together like tent poles and then be screwed from either side of the join. At the bottom I will put a long thin SS bolt through the top holes on the stainless adjuster plate ( the one with all the holes ) and hopefully then the whole PVC 'foil ' will turn as I turn the furler. I hope this makes  sense. 

Now the furler . I think maybe your right and VB chord on the furler probably has too much stretch to be good for reefing at fixed intervals BUT 2 mm spectra has no stretch so it should be strong enough for the job . I have some rigged as a pull down on my centerboard passing under the boat and up to the transom in case of marine growth sticking the cb and it would fit on the standard furler ok.

First problem in doing any of this of course is how to cut a perfectly straight slot  in the PVC . I have a bench saw , so I'm going to get some 20 mm square timber, drill some small holes right through the pvc using the brand label as a guide and nail it gently to the timber. Then I have a fixed flat surface to feed against the saw guide with the saw set just deep enough to cut the PVC and  miss the nails. It will need two cuts to create a slot that will clear the thick seam of the jib but still catch behind the hanks/slugs.

I then had a further thought. The investigator association notes instruct that one should also lace the jib halyard through the hanks in order to keep the whole thing together when the sail is set. I am I admit not consistent in this practice as it is usually a pain to get it through the hanks when raising the sail. With the PVC furler some holes could be drilled at the front,  say eighth of the PVC diameter back from the leading edge to take some electrical ties to both clamp the halyard to the furler and keep the wire forestay tied to the front of the foil. If your taking this down as a unit and putting it up each time you sail , all this could be done easily on the ground and left in place. It will be more of a fiddle on the mooring and I may be better of getting a UV strip sewn onto my genoa like a regular yacht And leaving it up. Alternatively I am thinking of a protective sock that could be dragged up by the topping lift (reversed) to keep the sail from the ravages of the sun and rain. My sails have lasted so long because they always come off and are stored bagged inside the boat.

I'm not sure how Gunter did his. Maybe as he used 30 mm he just cut a wide slot slotted it easy over everything halyard and forestay and hanks and held it with ties . Obviously it worked so ...Gunter if your there by all means tell us and post a pic if you have one or a thumbnail sketch.

Peter in your case you may be able to source a length of PVC 20mm the full length of your luff. Maybe plumbing supplies would have longer lengths than Bunnys.

[Ozzie]

sheesh what a long post you have grandma....if anyone has some shortcut ideas on this please suggest away.

[camanche73]

I read your post with great interest.
But what I imagine is that you are cutting a slot the entire length of the PVC?
How would you prevent the PVC from removing itself from the forestay, or buckling with the torque applied on it when you furl under load?

[Yara50]

Here is a picture of a home made furler I spotted some years ago. All made from PVC pipe- even the drum from PVC flanges and pipe. This design has the advantage that the forestay can be tensioned by the bobstay under the bowsprit. As the pipe rotates about the forestay, no swivel is needed at the top. The inner pipe is complete, and I think the sail is laced onto it. You could alternatively drill holes and run a lacing up the pipe, and clip your hanks onto the lacing. You are looking for a torque tube to reef the sail in, and a solid pipe without a slot is a lot stronger in torsion. Note that most of the standard "Careel "type furlers seem to have wire luffs rather than hanks.

Simple and neat. Only trouble with these systems is poor airflow on the leading edge of the sail, and more weight aloft. Also hard to stow. (Forestay can be longer than the boat.)

Basic Furler

[Dr. Peter]

Ozzie,
That was a very lengthy explanation and you go far beyond what I had imagined. You are creating a fully functional reefing headsail my take was much less sophisticated.

I was picturing myself at the dock going mmmm, its a bit windy but not having the option of changing headsails on my boat - fitting the PVC pipe onto the luff of my headsail and rolling it up where it is smaller but still had a reasonable shape. The PVC pipe would help deal with the draught in the sail so perhaps 30mm would be better for this purpose. I think about a metre of pipe should do it but I would start with more and trim down bit by bit. Possibly electrical conduit might be better.

Then I would prevent the furler from spinning by some means other than the furling line but easy enough to sort out should I want to furl the headsail away altogether or shake the reef out should the wind ease then its no real bother to shake it out and retrieve the bit of pipe.