Rigging (wire rope) sizes ?

[cruiserpete]

Hi all,
had a search but could not find much so asking questions now
I'm thinking of replacing the wire rope rigging myself and was interested in the size of the wire rope.
Side stays?
Forestay?

I noticed that swaging tools are on sale so I'm thinking that buying a swaging tool, stainless steel wire rope, thimbles and swages so I might save me some money making my own rigging against taking the current rigging to a marine rigger...who might be at least 2 hrs or 3.5hrs drive ( 4hrs - 7hrs return). Although, I've not researched who or where I can get wire rope lengths to suit my 563 made.

Kincrome have a 350mm swaging tool on sale for $49.95 and a 600mm one for $79.95
The crimping sizes are:
350mm swaging tool ($49.95)
1.58mm, 1/16"
2.00mm, 5/64"
2.38-2.50mm, 3/32"
2.78mm, 7/64"
3.00-3.17mm, 1/8"
3.50mm, 9/64"

and then the 600mm tool ($79.95) includes the previous sizes and continues to:
3.96-4.00mm, 5/32"
4.76-5.00mm, 3/16"

Thoughts on...Can I go 1 or 2 sizes larger in wire rope in my standing rigging as a safety precaution?
Cheers, Pete

[Yara50]

I will check wire sizes on Yara over the weekend. Standing rigging is normally 1x19, but if you choose 7x7 for greater flexibility and less chance of kinking, the strength for the same size is quite a lot less. Will check, but I think the wire size on Yara is 3.2mm diameter. The larger size swaging tool makes life a lot easier, particularly if you have to hold the eye and squeeze at the same time.

[Steve]

Hi Pete,
I replaced my standing rigging a few months back, I used 1/8", 1 by 19 s/steel wire. I replaced it because the swaged eyelets had no tails and the stays where too short, the extra length to meet the chain plates came from d-shackles upon shackles plus a few more.
I have a Kingchrome hand swaging tool ( 600mm) that I bought for the job, my other swaging tool was for a bigger dia wire. The only thing I have against the kingchrome tool is it has no preload adjustment, so after some use the swages wont be the correct dia (possibly). Swages should really be checked with a go & no-go gauge.
1/8",, 1 by 19 wire is tough to pull into the eye so it helps if you have an offsider there to help, it can get pretty hard on the hands and thumbs.
I also have a Loos tension gauge which I have found great when setting up the rigging. With it I have got my stays tensioned perfect for what I want. I have been able to check tensions of stays whilst sailing at different points of sail and in different conditions. This has helped to gain an understanding of loadings and has given me a huge boost of confidence in the boat and the boat sails so much better too.
As for using a larger diameter wire than 1/8" , I too thought along those lines but now I would say any bigger than 1/8" would be unnecessary

Steve

[no way]

If you are using a hand swaging tool put it in a bench vice clapping it at the bar holding the jaws apart. Its then very easy to do the job by yourself. Loop the wire both ways thru the swage then hold in tool with enough pressure to stop it sliding - fit the thimble then pull the loop to fit the thimble then just crimp away
Me, I'd pay to have hydraulic rolled swages fitted - much neater finish and less bulky. You should be able to buy online. Try Mr Stainless in Drummoyne Sydney - I know they do rigging and balustrading but they can be exy. Whitworths used to hire swaging tools but ended up with liability problems thru incompetent users.

[Ozzie]

Pete, you probably know this but for others who dont, the running part of your adjustable back stay is a different wire configuration, like the Jib halyard , forget now what that configuration is even though I only bought some during the recent refurbishment . Others may have the detail. The 'great' memory I used to have is now just a 'grate' ( grating ) memory. It's more flexible to go through the small diameter blocks .... the wire not my memory

[no way]

From stiff to flexible
1x19 = 19 stands twisted together (stiff for standing rigging )
7x7 = 7 stands made of 7 wires twisted together (fairly flexible but not for very hard bends)
7x19 = 7 stands made of 19 wires twisted together (very soft and very flexible because the wire "fibres are so fine)
The tensile strength varies also for the same diameter cable

[Yara50]

The 7x19 is what you use for the backstay wire that goes through the pulley.

[cruiserpete]

Pete, you probably know this but for others who dont, the running part of your adjustable back stay is a different wire configuration, like the Jib halyard , forget now what that configuration is even though I only bought some during the recent refurbishment . Others may have the detail. The 'great' memory I used to have is now just a 'grate' ( grating ) memory. It's more flexible to go through the small diameter blocks .... the wire not my memory

Thanks for the vote of confidence ... but I did not realise the rigging was different .

I'm currently reading "Rigging by Danilo Fabbroni" but the book seems convoluted and confusing. The information in the book seems to jump about a bit and the section on standing rigging is mostly dedicated to rod rigging with about only half a page on wire rope. The book has some good basic points about wire rope, tensile strength and especially swaging which is really good info.
Oh... just learnt what a pintle is from reading Peter's recent posting... hahahaha. I too had trouble with the pintle but as mentioned I've bought an inspection port to allow greater access. I'm thinking?? of adding a second set of pintles as backups (the 2nd/backup pair will be slightly off centre (to starboard) to clear the current in use pintles but as an emergency set they will suffice)
Pete

[Ozzie]

Good call on the extra pintles CP.

I think it is a weak point on the boat and a spare pair already fixed in place cannot be a bad thing. I may do it next haulout myself.