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Ozzie
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Investigator Boat Name: Spritzig II
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Post by Ozzie »

This is the standard furled setup or at least what I have. Sorry about photo bucket pic this diagram came from careel site. It’s on here but I cannot find it. Anyway do you have all the components shown in the diagram or is one missing that might account for the disparity in length.
31225F91-5001-464D-856C-04B07F041C32.jpeg
I have fitted an extra forestry to my mast with a second hound as a backup but I only use the inner one as above for both sails
Ozzie
Investigator #143 "SPRITZIG II"

The Mariner - “It’s too strange here. It doesn’t move right." ...
Enola - “Helen said that it’s only land sickness."
Waterworld (1995)
no way
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:48 pm

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Post by no way »

The Careel set up Ozzie shows was specifically designed by a Careel owner and was later supplied by the builders. At the time (nearly 50 yrs ago now) the only "furler" arrangement available was - drum at the deck and swivel at the top with wire luff jib between. This system was really designed for dinghy's and to be used without a halyard (the jib was hard connected on the lawn when boat rigged) but with the size of TS sails it was impossible to get enough luff tension on the jib and still have the swivel work. The Careel system allows for this tension to be obtained because the luff, halyard and forestay are all in the same plane and also gives the sail something to wrap around rather than just twist. The set up will depend on the reason for furling - Reefing? simple/cheap systems are questionable for this. Convenience? to get rid of sail quickly or for mooring so long as the boat sails properly most designs will work. To leave furled on mooring, for sails the size of ours is not worth the weather damage and/or cost of the UV weather cover on the sail.I think your concern about back up stays, side or forestay is unwarranted. The failure rate of the correctly sized wire and the correctly swaged terminals is negligible. The problem with a 30+ year old mast is the corrosion (especially at penetrations for fitting etc) which is unseen, leading to extrusion failure. This is more of an issue when a boat is on a mooring and exposed to continual salt air. My forestay connection is as fairly common in boats this size - a hound fitting which has a pinned forestay attachment with a halyard sheave below and tangs either side on the thru bolt fastening to take the side stays. On the Investigator, just below that is are tangs either side of the mast to take the diamond stays. There are matching lower tangs about a metre of deck - the diamond spreaders are logically midway between the tangs. Diamond stay setup stabilises the centre of the mast.
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Ozzie
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Post by Ozzie »

no way wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 11:50 am Back to your original problem I'd talk to the rigger and get correct stay for which ever forestay/furler arrangement you go with- every join is a potential failure point.
Precisely why I have added the additional forestay. Prior to that I had a strop backing up the lower swivel on my Careel setup. And still have one backing up the adjustment block for the back stay. My reasoning for these is that the boat is really only a trailer sailer and on the mooring it will have to ride out weather that I would never be likely to be sailing in. I sleep better that way, on of off the boat 😀
Ozzie
Investigator #143 "SPRITZIG II"

The Mariner - “It’s too strange here. It doesn’t move right." ...
Enola - “Helen said that it’s only land sickness."
Waterworld (1995)
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Ozzie
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Post by Ozzie »

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=253&p=958&hilit=Swivel#p958

Here is an earlier discussion on the swivel. As I’ve said before I like the furler for calm days gunkholing around the lake as it keeps the foredeck uncluttered for fishing, anchoring, boarding and just crashing there but I’ve had my issues with it in heavy wind conditions which I’ve detailed here. Now on serious sailing days where I’m likely to face such conditions I rig Ian’s downhaul setup.

For newer sailors. It’s standard practice that not much is standard on sailing vessels I’ve found. Much comes down to personal preference and whatever level of risk or inconvenience you are prepared to accept. My usual advice on here to newer owners is sail a few times with what you have and see how it works for you. Once you strike a bit of bad weather you may see the advantage of having all lines lead back to the cockpit for instance. As we are mainly fair weather sailors it’s not so important to us. The double blocks on the clew of the headsail are a hazard if the sail starts flogging, but with a downhaul rigged you can get it under control fairly easily. Boom roller reefing was once highly favoured apparently by North American fishing boats who were sailing for a living in bad conditions so at the time it must have had something going for it, now it’s old hat.

Etc,etc,etc.

Primarily I think safety for yourself and mainly your crew is the main issue. Remember the NSW Maritime advertisements from a few years back “you’re the skipper, you’re responsible.

We only sail enclosed waters but things can get awfully hairy out there. If conditions arise that we are not comfortable with we simply like to know nothing will break till we get things down , adjusted and get to the nearest sheltered water location, of which we know well around the lake. We are unlikely to test the setups we have setup to failure point. What’s the point :shock:
B5BF12B5-BFBE-4BFB-B0A1-0B1515AB91E2.jpeg
B5BF12B5-BFBE-4BFB-B0A1-0B1515AB91E2.jpeg (33.16 KiB) Viewed 2996 times
Unwatermarked copy of diagram from earlier post.
Ozzie
Investigator #143 "SPRITZIG II"

The Mariner - “It’s too strange here. It doesn’t move right." ...
Enola - “Helen said that it’s only land sickness."
Waterworld (1995)
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Ozzie
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Post by Ozzie »

Anyway, this forum is really cooking now :) lockdowns are easing so in a month nobody will be posting, we’ll all be out sailing :arrow:
Ozzie
Investigator #143 "SPRITZIG II"

The Mariner - “It’s too strange here. It doesn’t move right." ...
Enola - “Helen said that it’s only land sickness."
Waterworld (1995)
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Ozzie
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Post by Ozzie »

Experience comes from things that happen. When I first moored Spritzig an old bloke with a cruiser mooring near me rowed past and said he used to own a 563 and they were the only TS he’d take out through Swansea Heads. It’s hard giving advice sometimes because on forums you are dealing with a huge range of experience. The anomaly with the Investigator is it is a very well ballasted boat and set up correctly is probably no less capable of open sea work than any of the many microcruisers I love reading about and banging on about on here. There are a few discussions on here re pros and cons of the 563 for open water use . Ian B correctly mentions the outboard mount which would slam in and out of rough water if you had to go back to motoring. I’ve always thought the hatches and token cockpit drains would be an issue so I’ve beefed them up. Drains still on list. Furler is a liability in the wrong conditions.

I took my family on several trips up to 20k around Oz in the 90s, in a 20 year old Kombi. Some of my friends thought I was nuts, but It was well prepared and the trip well planned. Best trip ever. So most problems can be overcome with preparation relevant to use . Few people come to grief because they over prepare.

I’ll shut up now. I’m starting to confuse myself. :lol: It’s bloody raining again and I’m hanging out to polish the boat and get it back in the water⛵️⛵️⛵️⛵️⛵️
Ozzie
Investigator #143 "SPRITZIG II"

The Mariner - “It’s too strange here. It doesn’t move right." ...
Enola - “Helen said that it’s only land sickness."
Waterworld (1995)
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Andrew
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Post by Andrew »

Here is a photo of my boat. Roller furler and fittings which attach to the forestay, (via a lanyard lashing to forestay eye)
Roller furler Teria.jpg
hope it's of assistance. The upper part of the system is as ozzie describes, has a swivel..the wire halyard just wraps up around stay when the furler is hauled on. There is no inner fore-stay, but there are two lower shrouds, as well as main shrouds and a backstay, the lower end of which goes to an adjustable bridal wire,, its tensioned or released by a block and tackle purchase on one side of bridal.)

I guess with only one forestay everything depends on it not failing. So far so good, keep an eye out for any hairline cracks, rust marks, frayed wires etc that would indicated imminent replacement.
Last edited by Andrew on Mon May 18, 2020 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew

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snoopebj
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Post by snoopebj »

Safety also my reason for choosing the Investigator. 50% ballast ratio, strong deck, full length keel. I have made a few mods to strengthen the boat since buying as I mainly sail offshore in Wollongong. I have listed these mods with photos here in the past.
With sails I prefer a seperate heavy duty furler as well as the forestay. I only use the roller jib offshore for safety and drop it altogether in a big blow sailing on just a reefed main which this boat seems to be ok with. My worst experience was not offshore but on the Broadwater in the Myall lakes. A deceptively treacherous shallow open bay. Hit with 30k gusts on the beam and a nasty choppy sea my 8hp yammie was cavitating wildly out of the water scary stuff.
I have since bolted anti cavitation wings (BCF) on the outboard leg and has made a big difference.
Stay safe and enjoy.
Fair winds and following seas

Emrys
Investigator #166 'Current Affair'
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