Insurance and an introduction

[IanS]

Hi Folks,

I am the new owner of Rhythm. A quick thank you to the members and administrators of this forum for providing lots of useful information to assist in my purchasing decision. I'm looking forward to getting out on the water with my family.

I am looking for advice on insurance. I have had a few quotes but all marine policies I have seen specifically exclude third-party liability while the boat is being moved on the trailer. This is about the only risk I am really concerned about (apart from running into a shiny cruiser or super yacht) and it seems to be uninsurable.

My comprehensive car insurance covers third-party liability while towing a "trailer or caravan" but when I asked if this covers a boat trailer I was told no.

Does any one have any advice or experience that can help me find appropriate insurance?

Thanks in advance,
Ian

[Geoff]

Hi Ian,

Have you tried NRMA? I am not sure what that exclusion means. Does it mean damage to other vehicles by the boat when trailering? Or damage to the boat by others when trailering? I must be missing something here as I would have thought both of those were the main reasons you would insure a trailer sailer.

I bought my boat end of last year. When I rang around, most of the insurers wanted marine surveys done prior to insuring because the boat was over 30 years old. I am from Qld and bought in Sydney, didn't want to tow that far uninsured. I am with RACQ, they wanted a survey done. Rang NRMA, they sorted it over the phone quickly and for half what RACQ wanted even if I could provide a survey.

[IanS]

Hi David and Geoff,

Thanks for the replies. I didn't write my question carefully enough and now I think I've answered it for myself.

In NSW (and presumably the other states) the compulsory third-party insurance (Green Slip in NSW) covers liability for personal injury or death to third-parties in case of an accident on the road. If you're towing a boat presumably you are still covered. Obvious really, it was third-party personal not property insurance I was most worried about.

So far the best quotes for comprehensive marine insurance came from Club Marine (requires a survey) and Topsail (no survey required), I will check Nautilus again but I think they rejected me because I want to keep the boat on the street. I will check again though because of your recommendation David. I am currently a member of the Hornsby Kuringai Sailing Club at Brooklyn (dinghy racing with the kids) so that might help.

Several others rejected me because of the age of the boat. NRMA was more than three times the best quote I received ($330 vs. $1200 per annum).

Thanks again,
Ian

[Geoff]

Wow, the street parking thing must be a killer, or maybe just postcode. NRMA charged me $277.

Actually, they were about the same price for the previous owner though (they were his recommendation) and he parked on the street in St Ives.

Do let us know your outcomes, always looking for the best options.

[Ozzie]

Hi Ian. Welcome to the forum. Insurance has become an issue for older boats. The Gio insured me for a moored cruiser for over a decade. Then the Investigator. In the end I only had 3rd party and liability then suddenly they just refused to insure a moored vessel over 30 years old not even 3rd Party . I was fairly unhappy after years of patronage so I shifted all my other policies elsewhere in protest.

Anyway I went with Anchorage Marine Underwriting Agency who were recommended on another forum. They were great. Just a few photos, no surveys. All my rig is covered for $5k reasonable for a 40 year old boat but 10 million Third party liability. Total cost $238.

Anyway get a quote. As you’re not moored it could be even cheaper. Look forward to hearing of your adventures.

[Bartman]

I have had a few quotes but all marine policies I have seen specifically exclude third-party liability while the boat is being moved on the trailer. This is about the only risk I am really concerned about (apart from running into a shiny cruiser or super yacht) and it seems to be uninsurable.

My comprehensive car insurance covers third-party liability while towing a "trailer or caravan" but when I asked if this covers a boat trailer I was told no.

Hi Ian,
I am a new member here too.
As you mentioned - I had the same path to commit to the Investigator 563 because of the great information, support for "amateurs" and sense of community and camaraderie I observed on this forum.

I also had the same concerns as you mentioned above regarding "Third Party Liability" (or Third Party Property Damage) when trailering the yacht. Basically... "Would I be covered for the cost of damage to someones BM-Trouble-U if reversed the trailer into it on the way to the boat ramp" !!

So - I am in no way an expert (on anything)... But my understanding of it goes like this.

My comprehensive insurance covers my car and anything permanently affixed to it.
- Such as the massive aluminum Bull Bar attached to the front - It wasn't designed, approved, supplied or installed by Nissan. But the RMS have assessed it as legally roadworthy and passed it as legally allowed to be on my car as demonstrated by my rego. So if I hit something with it, my comprehensive insurance covers the cost of the damage it causes. So Comprehensive insurance kind of sits on the registration as a proof of legal road worthiness. Without rego you can't get comprehensive insurance.

Continuing on.
If you attach a trailer to your car and the trailer has been legally assessed as roadworthy and is registered, then the cars comprehensive insurance is "grandfathered" in to also cover the trailer. However the cover is only for third party property damage caused by the trailer (which is now being regarded as an extension of the car).
- Damage to the trailer is not covered (you would have to insure the trailer separately).
- Damage to anything on (or in) the trailer is also not covered. So damage to your boat in a prang while it is being trailered is not covered.
But if you cause damage to someone elses car with your trailer (while it is attached to your car) then you are covered for the damage to the other party. Even though your trailer does not have its own insurance policy.
This is pretty much standard practice across all car insurance policies in Australia.

But.
This is where it gets iffy.
If the damage you cause to someone else while towing the yacht is caused by the yacht itself then you "might not be" covered for that. This part comes down to the interpretation of "permanently affixed". Just like with my Bull Bar - I am covered because it is a legal permanent part of my car. But the Investigator "may" not be a permanent part of its trailer.
(I would argue that it is a permanent part of the trailer when it is on dry land - you can hardly lift it off for any reason - but this comes down to a legal interpretation and we are just trying to do the right thing here regarding proper insurance when on the road, not see what we can get away with after an accident).

I hope the above helped. It is hard to get a straight answer on this stuff when you talk to them on the phone. Your comprehensive car insurance "almost certainly" does cover you for Third Party Property Damage, caused by your boat trailer, while you are towing it. Notwithstanding - the other replies about insuring the boat itself have been most helpful - thank you for those links and for saving us all the hassle of researching boat insurers.

[Geoff]

Try NRMA.

I live in Qld, but RACQ wouldn't do it for boats over 30 yrs old without a survey. NRMA did it over the phone easy as. My renewal email came the other day. $276 for $7.5k including trailer and outboard, but you can nominate your covered amount.

Don't know if being moored is a problem but having an old trailer sailer wasn't.

[Ozzie]

Not good David. NRMA would not insure my moored boat, too old.

A joke really, you could have a ten year old boat on a mooring which if not properly maintained could be a piece of junk and a liability. Just so typical of companies trying to have simple one size fits all mentality.

Have you tried other companies for just third party liability which is what I had with GIO till they dumped me . Cost ‘em though . I cancelled all my other policies that I’d had with them for years and consolidated everything with NRMA. For boats of our costing third party is not such a bad thing . If you put a bit extra away each time you pay your TP you can self insure for the actual boat, it ads up after a few years.

You might try writing an email stating what you have and what you want and sending it out bulk email to insurance “brokers”. They may have stuff suitable. I am suggesting you also in your request ask about third party cover only as well. Just so you at least have a fallback to consider. Other thing as a suggestion, go to the local mooring area one weekend and chat to owners with moored vessels of similar age to your 563. You may turn something up. Good luck.

[Peter T]

Hi David, Insurance companies don't take risk, they only take money. I could tell you the hoops I had to jump through just to get my money back this year. We had a Europian river Cruze booked and paid for. Covid hit, the Travel Company cancelled the trip and then kept $8000 of the $15000 we had paid. The insurance finally paid but you wouldn't believe what I had to do to get it. I now can never go insured again on a similar trip. Insurance companies are just total thieves, they say they will do one thing and then go and do another. and as for the travel company, well, there is another thing altogether ! I could not recommend Travel Marvel what so ever. The only marvel is that they are still in business.
As for your boat insurance, have you tried RACT ? I went with them for my caravan insurance, they were very competitive and actually paid when I had a claim for storm damage to the awning. They might do boats, worth asking anyway.

Peter

[Geoff]

Weird that a moored boat is considered a bigger risk than one constantly exposed to road hazards. But, I don't have access to their stats.